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Removing Propiska from Russia and registering at UK Russian Embassy
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timco
Posted 2014-08-30 12:21 PM (#62993 - in reply to #62981)
Subject: RE: Removing Propiska from Russia and registering at UK Russian Embassy
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Location: Birmingham UK
Mel - 2014-08-30 8:59 AM

timco - 2014-08-30 3:34 AM Got rid of the drivel



Mel maybe you should go get a refund from your charm school

I used to have great respect for you but here you have shown yourself to be a big bully who is not prepared to discuss just dictate and be rude to everbody who does not agree with your view. It brings into doubt everything else you have ever said.

As to protect my wife (yes she is and she is a very intelligent, beautiful, passionate Russian who has a degree in English, teaches English, translates from and into Russian, English and German) I don't need to she is perfectly capable to do this herself. However if you had been speaking to my wife like this in person i would have my hand around your throat right now, I ask you treat her with respect even if you don't agree with her views. If you can't do that I shall be reporting you, it is only a matter of manners which you and Deacon St have shown you lack.

I did not criticise anyones English, mine is not good enough to do that just pointed out that yours is so awful you should not criticise others for it.

Sadly you are doing this site and this firm no favours hopefully they will note this.
Real Russian
Posted 2014-08-30 12:21 PM (#62994 - in reply to #62982)
Subject: Re: Removing Propiska from Russia and registering at UK Russian Embassy
Member

Posts: 35
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My advice to you is that you should contact a qualified Russian lawyer, and ask their clarification of the law, and how it could affect your situation.

 

I suspect that you are in the UK on a spouse visa (For an initial period of about 27 months), therefore the law will affect you, and upon your return to the “Homeland”, you should register your visa, either at your local UFMS, or via the Post Office, however, as I said, I am NOT an expert on this, and you should consult a lawyer if you are in doubt..


Mel. I can't recall a single bit where I asked for any advice from you at all.

You are giving me advice in this comment and in the same comment you are agreeing with me that one shouldn't take advice from people on the forum. It's hilarious, Mel

My interpretation wasn't naive, I simply found it funny that first I was attacked my an "Expert" and then attacked by an "Elite Veteran".


Your comments about "if you were a Russian lawyer" are also irrelevant, because your interpretation, even if it's not yours, but the one of your wife, who is a lawyer or whatever, is just an INTERPRETATION. It's not in the Dual Citizenship Law.

I see my mission in pointing out that the Dual Citizenship Law doesn't specify the term "постоянное проживание" in the respect that it doesn't refer to any other law. It doesn't say "And the term постоянное проживание is explained in the Tax Law,article 224", does it?

Whatever you think of me doesn't matter. The truth is the thing that matters, and the truth is that YOU ARE MAKING ASSUMPTIONS about the law which are not there.
Mel
Posted 2014-08-30 12:22 PM (#62995 - in reply to #62990)
Subject: RE: Removing Propiska from Russia and registering at UK Russian Embassy


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Real Russian - 2014-08-30 4:47 PM Rasboinik, my sense of humour is fine, don't you worry. Oh dear I spent so much time trying to explain things about this Russian law, not about Russia. Why have you missed that? Where have I said about my better knowledge of Russia, not Russian? My answer to your question will be: yes, I think IT MIGHT CAUSE SOME HARM. That's my opinion, I have grounds for it. If a question (Are you a spammer?) is not an accusation how about this one (it's a classical Russian example): When did you stop drinking cognac in the mornings? It's a hidden insult. Go ask your wife, "Are you a bitch, honey?" see what she says. Then try to prove that it was just a question. Go ask your colleague, "Are you a moron?" see what they say. Then get surprised and tell them it's just a question. But it all doesn't matter, Mel is fine, if he thinks it's OK going around and asking people if they are spammers, it's up to him. What is important is that he has confused 2 separate Russian laws, which are not related. And about will it do any harm to report to the UFMS if you have a short-term visa - Mel was suggested people on this forum that their wives should run to the UFMS and do it ASAP. I think it might create a lot of worries if somebody can't do that. And if they needn't then what's the point of these worries?

No I did not, and please use correct English.....

Mel was telling people about the new russian law for dual passport holder, and Mel also said, that if a Russian citizenp has the right to live in another country, they do NOT have an obligation to run back to the motherland and register, and as long as they do not set foot on Russian soil, they do NOT need to register, BUT, as soon as they do set foot on Russian soil, they must adhere to this law, and register their permission to live in another country, whether it be a student visa, an ILR/FLR/ILE/FLE/Citizenship/foreign passport, etc etc....

Real Russian
Posted 2014-08-30 12:26 PM (#62996 - in reply to #62995)
Subject: RE: Removing Propiska from Russia and registering at UK Russian Embassy
Member

Posts: 35
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Mel - 2014-08-30 12:22 PM

No I did not, and please use correct English.....


Mel was telling people about the new russian law for dual passport holder, and Mel also said, that if a Russian citizenp has the right to live in another country, they do NOT have an obligation to run back to the motherland and register, and as long as they do not set foot on Russian soil, they do NOT need to register, BUT, as soon as they do set foot on Russian soil, they must adhere to this law, and register their permission to live in another country, whether it be a student visa, an ILR/FLR/ILE/FLE/Citizenship/foreign passport, etc etc....



Are you speaking of yourself in the 3d person? I am confused.

Mel, you can't point fingers to anyone about their English, your spelling isn't brilliant (appartment? really?)
I disagree about student visas or any short-term visas for that matter.

Edited by Real Russian 2014-08-30 12:34 PM
Mel
Posted 2014-08-30 12:29 PM (#62997 - in reply to #62991)
Subject: Re: Removing Propiska from Russia and registering at UK Russian Embassy


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Location: In the Windmills of my mind...
Real Russian - 2014-08-30 4:58 PM
Mel - 2014-08-30 8:53 AM

Real Russian - 2014-08-30 12:23 AM Mel, google it yourself. What do you mean you are waiting? You can't use Google or Yandex?

Thanks for the advice, but I don't need to "Google or Yandex" for the Russian laws, I already have them on my computer and they get updated every week..

Once again just for the record: These are 2 separate laws. One law defines who is a RESIDENT in Russia who is considered a NON-RESIDENT. The other one is about Dual Citizenship. 1) about the Resident/Non-resident law: you don't have to have any passports, visas, residence permits of another country to be considered a NON-RESIDENT. You simply have to spend more than 6 months a year outside Russia. You can spend all this time in Belarus, let's say and you don't need any visas or residence permits to stay in Belarus if you are Russian. This law is only about taxation. 2) about the Dual Citizenship Law: you can spend all your time in Russia, work in Russia, stay put and never go anywhere, but as you have an American passport, because you were born in New York (let's say your parents were diplomats), you have to report this. Even if you don't go to America but just have your passport in the bedside drawer. About taxation laws: sadly (it is very sad, yes), NON-RESIDENTS are exempt from the other taxation law which says that one has to pay tax on the difference between the purchase price and the selling price (if you sell your property in Russia). It's very unfair but it is like this now

We are not discussing someone who is Russian who lives say in Belarus, who by the way has to adhere to the registration laws of both countries, so this point is irrelevent...

Yes, correct, anyone even if they live in Russia, but hold a foreign passport/right of abode visa for a foreign country has to comply with the law. again, an irrelevent point..

Here we are talking about Russians who are currently living in the UK, for whatever reason, only....

Stop trying to muddy the waters....

timco
Posted 2014-08-30 12:29 PM (#62998 - in reply to #62968)
Subject: Re: Removing Propiska from Russia and registering at UK Russian Embassy
Regular

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Location: Birmingham UK


DeaconStreet - 2014-08-29 8:48 PM

Mel did not accuse you of being a spammer. try to read it all again

your 9 consecutive posts (out of 11 on this page so far) appear to be nothing more than a monologue. ranting on about wanting an apology. for fucks sake missus - you must be a freekin nightmare with a mobile phone and SMS. sounds like I'd be slashing my wrists if I was married to you. we've had your second opinion but your diatribe aint wanted on here. How's that for rudeness?



A moderator....nothing moderate here complaint sent to real Russia

Edited by timco 2014-08-30 12:32 PM
Real Russian
Posted 2014-08-30 12:30 PM (#62999 - in reply to #62975)
Subject: RE: Removing Propiska from Russia and registering at UK Russian Embassy
Member

Posts: 35
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Rasboinik - 2014-08-30 1:03 AM

On a different note, I would suggest to you contact the moderators and request that they change your user name (maybe to Russian Lady) and that is because your user name is very similar to the name of the company that this forum belongs to, therefore this will most likely cause a lot of confusion.


Rasboinik, totally agree with you about the name, you have the point, it is very confusing, I will try and change it, thanks.
Real Russian
Posted 2014-08-30 12:32 PM (#63000 - in reply to #62997)
Subject: Re: Removing Propiska from Russia and registering at UK Russian Embassy
Member

Posts: 35
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Mel - 2014-08-30 12:29 PM

Stop trying to muddy the waters....



I was not. I was pointing out that these are 2 different laws, totally unrelated.

Edited by Real Russian 2014-08-30 12:33 PM
Mel
Posted 2014-08-30 12:37 PM (#63001 - in reply to #62992)
Subject: Re: Removing Propiska from Russia and registering at UK Russian Embassy


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Location: In the Windmills of my mind...

Real Russian - 2014-08-30 5:07 PM Mel, that's one very long comment. What wasn't "becoming of a lady"? Don't get it, because it was a neutral comment in Russian in which I DID NOT CALL YOU ANY NAMES. I still stick to what I have said above: these are 2 separate laws, whatever you say. The law about Dual Citizenship doesn't specify what the term постоянное проживание means and doesn't refer to any other law which specifies this term. The assumption that you have made, that this term was specified before somewhere, it's only an assumption, the Dual Citizenship Law doesn't say anything about that. The Dual Citizenship Law is about finding out Russians to have this right to live abroad forever, not to find those who do live abroad forever. You continue confusing people, Mel. Not nice, not becoming of a gentleman

Your comment written in Russian was an abusive comment....

It seems to me, that its YOU who is causing so much confusion, with your self rightous manner.....

Please re-read my post regarding the 2 different laws, 1 is for taxation, the second in dual passport holders, BUT, the dual passport holders law takes the previously implemented taxation laws interpretation of residency as its guidance.

Real Russian
Posted 2014-08-30 12:42 PM (#63002 - in reply to #63001)
Subject: Re: Removing Propiska from Russia and registering at UK Russian Embassy
Member

Posts: 35
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Mel - 2014-08-30 12:37 PM

Please re-read my post regarding the 2 different laws, 1 is for taxation, the second in dual passport holders, BUT, the dual passport holders law takes the previously implemented taxation laws interpretation of residency as its guidance.



No, it doesn't take it as its guidance, it doesn't say so in the law!

It's not there, the Dual Citizenship Law doesn't mention the other one and doesn't refer to it in any shape or form.

I have already given here links to the law, won't do it once again, but it doesn't.

Real Russian
Posted 2014-08-30 12:58 PM (#63003 - in reply to #61791)
Subject: Re: Removing Propiska from Russia and registering at UK Russian Embassy
Member

Posts: 35
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Mel, I am giving up.
We are going round in circles, as my husband has wisely pointed out to me.
You stick to your interpretation of the Law, I'll stick to what I have said above.
"Платон мне друг, но истина дороже", Russians like this saying. Take care.
Mel
Posted 2014-08-30 1:00 PM (#63004 - in reply to #62993)
Subject: RE: Removing Propiska from Russia and registering at UK Russian Embassy


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Location: In the Windmills of my mind...
timco - 2014-08-30 5:21 PM
Mel - 2014-08-30 8:59 AM

timco - 2014-08-30 3:34 AM Got rid of the drivel

Mel maybe you should go get a refund from your charm school I used to have great respect for you but here you have shown yourself to be a big bully who is not prepared to discuss just dictate and be rude to everbody who does not agree with your view. It brings into doubt everything else you have ever said. As to protect my wife (yes she is and she is a very intelligent, beautiful, passionate Russian who has a degree in English, teaches English, translates from and into Russian, English and German) I don't need to she is perfectly capable to do this herself. However if you had been speaking to my wife like this in person i would have my hand around your throat right now, I ask you treat her with respect even if you don't agree with her views. If you can't do that I shall be reporting you, it is only a matter of manners which you and Deacon St have shown you lack. I did not criticise anyones English, mine is not good enough to do that just pointed out that yours is so awful you should not criticise others for it. Sadly you are doing this site and this firm no favours hopefully they will note this.

You are entitled to your opinion about me, just as I am about you and your wife.

I am in no doubt thats she is intelligent, I can see that from her comments, but she is also typical of Russian English teachers, (Of whom I know many very very highly qualified), they all speak excellent gramatically correct english, but they do not understand real english, which is accepted considering that they are taught english by native speaking Russians, and not native speaking english teachers, I also find, that they listen, but tend not to hear what is being said to them, and once they get the bit between the teeth, they never give up.

My wife is also very firey, she has a degree in Accountancy, a higher degree in law, and a degree in tax auditing, she has her own extremely successful business and is recognised in the courts as a specialist in Russian taxation laws, she speaks much better english than me.

In addition to this, we have friends and family all over the world, so she is taking additional interest in this "Dual passports" law, not only to assist them, but because it also affects her.. 

She is my advisor, so, if your wife wishes to get the true facts which she believes are different to what I write, then she should contact a Russian lawyer

So far I have treated your wife with the respect which she has earned, and will continue to do so, but please, if you are not happy, contact the forum owners, it is your right.

Mel
Posted 2014-08-30 1:03 PM (#63005 - in reply to #62996)
Subject: RE: Removing Propiska from Russia and registering at UK Russian Embassy


Expert

Posts: 4732
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Location: In the Windmills of my mind...
Real Russian - 2014-08-30 5:26 PM
Mel - 2014-08-30 12:22 PM No I did not, and please use correct English.....

 

Mel was telling people about the new russian law for dual passport holder, and Mel also said, that if a Russian citizenp has the right to live in another country, they do NOT have an obligation to run back to the motherland and register, and as long as they do not set foot on Russian soil, they do NOT need to register, BUT, as soon as they do set foot on Russian soil, they must adhere to this law, and register their permission to live in another country, whether it be a student visa, an ILR/FLR/ILE/FLE/Citizenship/foreign passport, etc etc....

Are you speaking of yourself in the 3d person? I am confused. Mel, you can't point fingers to anyone about their English, your spelling isn't brilliant (appartment? really?) I disagree about student visas or any short-term visas for that matter.

Disagree as much as you wish.....

 

Real Russian
Posted 2014-08-30 1:05 PM (#63006 - in reply to #63005)
Subject: RE: Removing Propiska from Russia and registering at UK Russian Embassy
Member

Posts: 35
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Mel - 2014-08-30 1:03 PM

Disagree as much as you wish.....

 



Mel, have a nice day and take care

Mel
Posted 2014-08-30 1:37 PM (#63007 - in reply to #62993)
Subject: RE: Removing Propiska from Russia and registering at UK Russian Embassy


Expert

Posts: 4732
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Location: In the Windmills of my mind...
timco - 2014-08-30 5:21 PM
Mel - 2014-08-30 8:59 AM

timco - 2014-08-30 3:34 AM Got rid of the drivel

Mel maybe you should go get a refund from your charm school I used to have great respect for you but here you have shown yourself to be a big bully who is not prepared to discuss just dictate and be rude to everbody who does not agree with your view. It brings into doubt everything else you have ever said. As to protect my wife (yes she is and she is a very intelligent, beautiful, passionate Russian who has a degree in English, teaches English, translates from and into Russian, English and German) I don't need to she is perfectly capable to do this herself. However if you had been speaking to my wife like this in person i would have my hand around your throat right now, I ask you treat her with respect even if you don't agree with her views. If you can't do that I shall be reporting you, it is only a matter of manners which you and Deacon St have shown you lack. I did not criticise anyones English, mine is not good enough to do that just pointed out that yours is so awful you should not criticise others for it. Sadly you are doing this site and this firm no favours hopefully they will note this.

Just seen this...

The use of threats of violence is a 100% NO NO!!!!

Mel
Posted 2014-08-30 1:39 PM (#63008 - in reply to #63006)
Subject: RE: Removing Propiska from Russia and registering at UK Russian Embassy


Expert

Posts: 4732
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Location: In the Windmills of my mind...
Real Russian - 2014-08-30 6:05 PM
Mel - 2014-08-30 1:03 PM Disagree as much as you wish.....

 

 

Mel, have a nice day and take care

Same to you honey, have fun......

TonyH
Posted 2014-08-30 4:25 PM (#63010 - in reply to #62980)
Subject: RE: Removing Propiska from Russia and registering at UK Russian Embassy


Expert

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Location: South Leicestershire
Mel - 2014-08-30 8:54 AM

Rasboinik - 2014-08-30 6:03 AM

WOW,
A real Ferocious and Passionate Russian lady, with the typical Russian attitude that only Russians have any knowledge of Russia.
I am afraid to say that, that attitude is not always correct.
With regards to the information supplied by Mel, Mel is trying to give decent advise to the members of this forum so that the forum members or their wives do get into trouble,
OK the law is most probably only relevant if a Russian citizen has a permanent residency permit in another country but my question to you is: Will it cause any harm is somebody attempts to inform the Russian authorities that they have a FLR, (a permit to live in the UK for more than 180 days) the worst option will be (assuming that a FLR does not have to be reported) that the Russian bureaucrat will just say "You do not have to report this".


On a different note, I would suggest to you contact the moderators and request that they change your user name (maybe to Russian Lady) and that is because your user name is very similar to the name of the company that this forum belongs to, therefore this will most likely cause a lot of confusion.

Final comment from me.
девушка Пожалуйста, найти магазин, где можно купить чувством юмора
Mel did not accuse you of being a spammer (a question is not an accusation).

 







I just dropped in !!!!!!
Rasboinik
Posted 2014-08-31 1:46 AM (#63017 - in reply to #62990)
Subject: RE: Removing Propiska from Russia and registering at UK Russian Embassy


Expert

Posts: 2588
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Location: When at home either Sakhalin Island or Scotland

 

Rasboinik - 2014-08-30 11:03 AM my question to you is: Will it cause any harm is somebody attempts to inform the Russian authorities that they have a FLR, (a permit to live in the UK for more than 180 days) the worst option will be (assuming that a FLR does not have to be reported) that the Russian bureaucrat will just say "You do not have to report this".
Real Russian - 2014-08-30 9:47 PM  My answer to your question will be: yes, I think IT MIGHT CAUSE SOME HARM. That's my opinion, I have grounds for it.

Could you please explain what harm you think it might cause?

Real Russian
Posted 2014-08-31 3:40 AM (#63018 - in reply to #63017)
Subject: RE: Removing Propiska from Russia and registering at UK Russian Embassy
Member

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Rasboinik - 2014-08-31 1:46 AM

 

Rasboinik - 2014-08-30 11:03 AM my question to you is: Will it cause any harm is somebody attempts to inform the Russian authorities that they have a FLR, (a permit to live in the UK for more than 180 days) the worst option will be (assuming that a FLR does not have to be reported) that the Russian bureaucrat will just say "You do not have to report this".
Real Russian - 2014-08-30 9:47 PM  My answer to your question will be: yes, I think IT MIGHT CAUSE SOME HARM. That's my opinion, I have grounds for it.

Could you please explain what harm you think it might cause?



Hi, Rasboinik.
I would like to point out straightaway that everything I am going to say now is purely my opinion and it shouldn't be taken as anything else.

I am always very apprehensive to involve our "kind and caring" (that's sarcasm) Russian government in my personal affairs. Lots of Russians prefer to keep their beloved Russian state out of their personal matters if they can help it.

Russia at the moment is ruled by a paranoid megalomaniac (it's only my personal opinion) and this new Dual Citizenship Law is a reflection of his sweet KGB personality and ways.

I am thinking of consequences one might face if they come to the UFMS and report that they have a British passport. I have seen and read a lot on this new law and it seems they want to "track" every bad Russian. I don't know what it might lead to, but Russians living abroad suggest everything from making those who have 2 citizenships leave Russia to problems their families in Russia might face.

All this above is barely my speculations, but each person should consider for themselves. A Russian wife of a British person might have a father who is employed in certain areas and the fact that his daughter has got a British passport might affect his career, for instance.

It's all mainly the gut feeling thing and I am afraid I can't put it any better but hopefully my idea is clear more or less. Again, it's for each and everyone to decide.
Rasboinik
Posted 2014-08-31 4:47 AM (#63019 - in reply to #63018)
Subject: RE: Removing Propiska from Russia and registering at UK Russian Embassy


Expert

Posts: 2588
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Location: When at home either Sakhalin Island or Scotland
Hi "Russian Lady"
Thank you for your reply.
Regarding your comments, OK I do accept that they are your opinions.

On a different note (and kinda confirming your opinions) quite a while ago I was having a discussion with one of my Russian "mental" sparring partners about certain issues in Russia.
I came up with what I thought would be a killer comment that would make me totally win the discussion.
The comment that I made was:
"In my opinion the Russian Government has not changed it's attitudes since the Socialist Era"
The lady looked at me and answered:
"What do expect, we changed the name of the country but we have not changed the people in charge of the country"

The lady's answer totally knocked the wind out of my sails (a British expression that means stopping any option of further movement) and instead of me being able to claim a victory (in the discussion) I was left stranded and could not make any more comments.
TonyH
Posted 2014-08-31 9:26 AM (#63020 - in reply to #63018)
Subject: RE: Removing Propiska from Russia and registering at UK Russian Embassy


Expert

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Location: South Leicestershire
Real Russian - 2014-08-31 3:40 AM

Rasboinik - 2014-08-31 1:46 AM

 

Rasboinik - 2014-08-30 11:03 AM my question to you is: Will it cause any harm is somebody attempts to inform the Russian authorities that they have a FLR, (a permit to live in the UK for more than 180 days) the worst option will be (assuming that a FLR does not have to be reported) that the Russian bureaucrat will just say "You do not have to report this".
Real Russian - 2014-08-30 9:47 PM  My answer to your question will be: yes, I think IT MIGHT CAUSE SOME HARM. That's my opinion, I have grounds for it.

Could you please explain what harm you think it might cause?



Hi, Rasboinik.
I would like to point out straightaway that everything I am going to say now is purely my opinion and it shouldn't be taken as anything else.

I am always very apprehensive to involve our "kind and caring" (that's sarcasm) Russian government in my personal affairs. Lots of Russians prefer to keep their beloved Russian state out of their personal matters if they can help it.

Russia at the moment is ruled by a paranoid megalomaniac (it's only my personal opinion) and this new Dual Citizenship Law is a reflection of his sweet KGB personality and ways.

I am thinking of consequences one might face if they come to the UFMS and report that they have a British passport. I have seen and read a lot on this new law and it seems they want to "track" every bad Russian. I don't know what it might lead to, but Russians living abroad suggest everything from making those who have 2 citizenships leave Russia to problems their families in Russia might face.

All this above is barely my speculations, but each person should consider for themselves. A Russian wife of a British person might have a father who is employed in certain areas and the fact that his daughter has got a British passport might affect his career, for instance.

It's all mainly the gut feeling thing and I am afraid I can't put it any better but hopefully my idea is clear more or less. Again, it's for each and everyone to decide.


Well I'll be honest I am in total agreement with thoughts and sentiment. This law is just the first step along with other recent restrictive laws. Big plan ? You bet !! But of course the internal brainwash continues 24/7 'Russia is right and the rest of the world has got it wrong'.....dangerous game.
55North
Posted 2014-08-31 11:50 AM (#63021 - in reply to #61791)
Subject: Re: Removing Propiska from Russia and registering at UK Russian Embassy


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I don't wish to alarm anybody unnecessarily, but my (Russian) wife tells me that a 'proposal' is to be made (legislation?) that Russians will have to forgo dual nationality ie. relinquish one or the other. Personally, i'm not surprised. Indeed, within the present ideology, I'd be surprised if it didn't happen, and it will profoundly challenge many folk, not least within my own family.

I am unable to give you a link at present, but will endeavour to do so later today. Russian speakers could possibly google it.
MariaRR
Posted 2014-09-02 2:03 PM (#63034 - in reply to #63021)
Subject: Re: Removing Propiska from Russia and registering at UK Russian Embassy


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