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How is Powerful Russia Or America
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andrwclay
Posted 2010-06-25 6:50 AM (#35200)
Subject: How is Powerful Russia Or America
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Posts: 6

This was said that America was Powerful country. But among them said Russia.

Why you think which is Powerful Russia And America?
DeaconStreet
Posted 2010-06-25 8:06 AM (#35201 - in reply to #35200)
Subject: Re: How is Powerful Russia Or America


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2yrs and 3months late last post, now this...

I think that you're in the wrong forum matey.
Rasboinik
Posted 2010-06-25 9:42 AM (#35204 - in reply to #35200)
Subject: RE: How is Powerful Russia Or America


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andrwclay - 2010-06-25 4:50 PM This was said that America was Powerful country. But among them said Russia. Why you think which is Powerful Russia And America?

 For your second post you added SPAM in your signature strip

 None of your posts make any sense, also it looks like you do not .

 

What do you want?

johnsharkey
Posted 2010-06-25 12:00 PM (#35209 - in reply to #35200)
Subject: Re: How is Powerful Russia Or America
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Location: Penryn,Cornwall
Raffi,the poster is LONELY,HA!!!
Malcolm
Posted 2010-06-25 2:37 PM (#35211 - in reply to #35200)
Subject: Re: How is Powerful Russia Or America


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In answer to your question.

The Russian Navy has one steam turbine powered aircraft carrier, Admiral Kuznetsov, which has a displacement of 43,000 tons and carries 17 fixed wing aircraft.

The US Navy has ten nuclear powered Nimitz class aircraft carriers, each with a displacement of 100,000 tons, carrying 90 fixed wing aircraft.
They also have the USS Enterprise which was the largest carrier ever made before the Nimitz class carriers.

Get the picture?
johnsharkey
Posted 2010-06-25 4:58 PM (#35214 - in reply to #35200)
Subject: Re: How is Powerful Russia Or America
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And the Royal Navy in it,s Fleet Carrier,s Ark Royal,Eagle.Hermes,Albion(before being converted to Commando carrier,s..H,A)just to name a few, could launch from thier deck more aircraft than the US Navy(fact),,the first Royal Navy Fixed wing jet flow onto a carrier was by a officer called Eric Brown(CAPT)..He was my Commanding officer when i joined HMS FULMAR (RNAS LOSSIEMOUTH) 26th Aug 1968..yes im an old "F++++R.so you dont need to remind me..22 1/2 yr,s service and enjoyed every year i was in..ffff brilliant..johnnyboyracerinthefastestvxastra(pulled in bristol 17th May 2010..)unmarked Audi..watch your A when travelling Bristol-Exeter.. ,,,And i forgot to mention Malcolm,HMS VICTORIOUS..

Edited by johnsharkey 2010-06-25 5:10 PM
Malcolm
Posted 2010-06-25 5:20 PM (#35215 - in reply to #35214)
Subject: Re: How is Powerful Russia Or America


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Very true Johnny boy, the Royal Navy is more than a match for the rusting Russians, that's a fact.

But he was asking about the Yanks.

You got pulled by an Audi? I thought you said you had a fast car?

natashsharkey
Posted 2010-06-25 6:03 PM (#35216 - in reply to #35200)
Subject: Re: How is Powerful Russia Or America


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will reply later..j
johnsharkey
Posted 2010-06-25 10:01 PM (#35219 - in reply to #35200)
Subject: Re: How is Powerful Russia Or America
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If the poster was to look in his search of the most powerful military establisment in the world.then i think he would be pleasantly surprised that it,s the Yank,s,your right Malcolm about the USA and just it,s sea borne ship,s alone,excluding military hardware and ship borne aircraft,an eye opener really,search Royal Navy and see how we used to be,aircraft,carrier,s etc.Including the young Eric Winkle Brown,who is now in his 70s,,a really brilliant RN career..

Edited by johnsharkey 2010-06-25 10:02 PM
Sokol
Posted 2010-06-25 10:30 PM (#35220 - in reply to #35211)
Subject: Re: How is Powerful Russia Or America
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Malcolm - 2010-06-25 2:37 PM

In answer to your question.

The Russian Navy has one steam turbine powered aircraft carrier, Admiral Kuznetsov, which has a displacement of 43,000 tons and carries 17 fixed wing aircraft.

The US Navy has ten nuclear powered Nimitz class aircraft carriers, each with a displacement of 100,000 tons, carrying 90 fixed wing aircraft.
They also have the USS Enterprise which was the largest carrier ever made before the Nimitz class carriers.

Get the picture?


Got the picture. Only how does it helps them to win the war, for instance, in the such god forsaken tribal country as Afghanistan? Their military fit but not for purpose. Russia on the contrary abandoned plans to build further aircraft carriers and concentrated on the first place on buying Mistral class amphibious assault warships from France that are able to carry helicopters, troops, armoured vehicles and tanks thousands of miles.

It is obvious that direct naval battles between the states in the future will be very limited but instead will be increased a number of land-sea, land-air operations. That is why the wars will be won by those who use specially trained soldiers, unmanned drones, helicopters, amphibious ships and transport aircrafts supported by excellent gathered intelligence. Times of large warships, tanks and fighter jets already have gone.

I am not saying that America not moving in this direction as well, but I am saying that number of aircraft carriers is not indicator of nation power. By the way I had served as flight deck officer on the aircraft carrier “Admiral Kuznetsov” in the nineties, and a big fun of carriers, but I unfortunately realise that for today aircraft carriers have accomplished their glorious mission.


Malcolm
Posted 2010-06-25 11:07 PM (#35223 - in reply to #35200)
Subject: Re: How is Powerful Russia Or America


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I hardly think you could describe the Russian army as being comprised of specially trained soldiers, given that the vast majority are serving time as conscripts.
Of course aircraft carriers are pretty useless in a land locked nation like Afghanistan but then so are amphibious landing craft. Carriers are not used in naval battles, they aren't equipped for such an event. Their purpose is to bring aerial power into play from a distance.

Russia will have 4 new aircraft carriers, so they haven't abandoned their plans at all and as for the mistral assault ships, they plan to buy four of them. Not exactly a world beating naval assault force.

Still, who needs armies or navies when you have enough nuclear warheads to vaporise the planet several times over...
Sokol
Posted 2010-06-26 12:48 AM (#35226 - in reply to #35223)
Subject: Re: How is Powerful Russia Or America
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Malcolm - 2010-06-25 11:07 PM

Russia will have 4 new aircraft carriers, so they haven't abandoned their plans at all and as for the mistral assault ships, they plan to buy four of them. Not exactly a world beating naval assault force.


When I started my service on “Admiral Kuznetsov” in 1991 there was another aircraft carrier called “Ul'yanovsk” has to be built in Nikolayev and would have been Russian first nuclear aircraft carrier comparable to the American Nimitz class. I was offered a position there, as there been so few specialists in FSU responsible for aircraft landing, but I decided not go, that proved to be the right decision, as after breakup of the Soviet Union her completion was never finished and she was scrapped in 1992. What was left, i.e. design of Ulyanovsk was sold by Russians to China secretly in 2007.

Now in spite of some navy high commanders PR on this matter I think that their plans will be left only on paper and I do not believe that any of the aircraft carriers will be built in foreseeable future.

Russia currently lacks the capacity to build aircraft carriers and modernising its existing shipyards would be an expensive and lengthy proposition. The only place, where aircraft carriers supposed to be built, which is Nikolayev now located in Ukraine at the Black Sea. No agreements on building any ships, not only carriers were reached between Russia and Ukraine on this matter. They were lucky to get deal on Sevastopol as Russian fleet base this year. There of course an option to buy it from abroad, but all able to build aircraft carriers countries or in NATO or lack of a carrier building facilities.

Then even if they will be built, there no prepared bases for such aircrafts. When “Admiral Kuznetsov” was forced to be relocated to the Northern Fleet after FSU collapse, there were constant problems with its functioning, aircraft carrier fine mechanics just does not work behind Polar Circle. And there were no flight deck heating provided, as it was initially destined for working in the Black Sea and the Mediterranean.

As well as the stop-and-go nature of aircraft carrier development was exacerbated by the uncertain status of the Central Naval Aviation Centre. It is located in the Crimea, near Sevastopol and negotiations between Ukraine and Russia over naval facilities still ongoing. Pilots need constant training and they can do it only there mock-up model of flight deck located. Nothing is built on the mainland Russian territory.

And then of course money, I do not think Russia can afford to allocate millions of roubles to the aircraft carrier building facilities in the same time when they are buying Mistral range warships from France. And in the end if they indeed planned to build aircraft carriers why they sold design rights on this to China?

So for all these reasons, the future of Russian aircraft carriers, at least in the near-term, for me looks rather bleak.
johnsharkey
Posted 2010-06-26 10:08 AM (#35235 - in reply to #35200)
Subject: Re: How is Powerful Russia Or America
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So how long were you on the above mentioned Carrier,as a deck officer??..And how long was your time in the service..
Sokol
Posted 2010-06-26 1:17 PM (#35240 - in reply to #35200)
Subject: Re: How is Powerful Russia Or America
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Not long through, I did four years after five years of education in the naval college. Was quite difficult time in the nineties for a military career.
WorcestershireB
Posted 2010-06-26 8:25 PM (#35244 - in reply to #35200)
Subject: Re: How is Powerful Russia Or America
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In theory both countries are powerful, although only the USA has a proven and substantial ability to project that power just about anywhere it likes.

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